Engine 7 is taken out of service
Fire Engine 7 has been taken out of service after 84 years of service to Roanoke's Southwest neighborhoods. The engine was placed into service on December 13, 1922 when Fire Station 7 was opened at 1742 Memorial Avenue. A ladder truck was added in 1950 after Roanoke's Firefighters added on an additional bay with a large bunk room above. The first Engine 7 was a 1920's model Seagrave.
Engine 7 has been replaced with an ambulance (Medic 7). The other unit which will remain in service at Station 7 will be a Quint (Ladder 7). A Quint is a multitasking truck. Ladder 7 boasts a 75' Aerial Ladder, Ground ladders, 300 gallons of water, hose, and a pump. In the grand scheme of Quints, ours is about as underdesigned as they can get. Ladder 13 is an identical truck and is only run as a ladder.
From the ground up, Ladder 7 has shortcomings. Here are a few of the major ones.
The ideal reach of an Aerial Ladder is at least 95'; Ladder 7 is 75'.
The ideal amount of water on an engine is at least 500 gallons; Ladder 7 holds 300 gallons.
The weight of the truck is obviously too much for the single axle design in the rear end.
From what I understand, Quint 7 will be run as an engine in its first/second due and as a ladder truck outside of that area.
The reason why I bring all this stuff up is because of what is going on in Roanoke.
Roanoke has the most aggressive Fire Department in the State! If you don't believe me look around the State. We have had fairly safe history (knock on wood); and are very blessed by having quick response times, dedicated personnel, and hard workers.
So my question is if it isn't broke then why fix it?
Several years ago, Engine 12 was taken out of service and replaced by Medic 4; the additional two positions were sent to Roanoke County at Clearbrook Station 7.
Now we lose Engine 7 to put another Medic truck in service.
Before you guys start screaming, I will admit that we need more ambulances. It seems like the City gets dumped daily and we are calling on other agencies to fill in and run calls for us. At what cost?
Think of it this way, if we are running more EMS calls then we are billing for more EMS calls and thus making more revenue for those EMS calls. Naturally, you would think that the additional revenue would be used to fund these additional medic trucks. Until I am proven otherwise, it is my understanding that the revenue from EMS billing is placed in the general fund of the City and not earmarked for Fire-EMS uses.
The additional Medic Trucks must come at a cost. That cost has become Engine/Ladder Companies. Our fleet of Medic trucks increases, our fleet of Fire Apparatus decreases. It seems as though we are on a crash course for potential disaster. Look around, most of the large incidents we have had in the past we have been able to handle with limited loss of life and property. But will the cost be greater in the future?
Engine 7 has been replaced with an ambulance (Medic 7). The other unit which will remain in service at Station 7 will be a Quint (Ladder 7). A Quint is a multitasking truck. Ladder 7 boasts a 75' Aerial Ladder, Ground ladders, 300 gallons of water, hose, and a pump. In the grand scheme of Quints, ours is about as underdesigned as they can get. Ladder 13 is an identical truck and is only run as a ladder.From the ground up, Ladder 7 has shortcomings. Here are a few of the major ones.
The ideal reach of an Aerial Ladder is at least 95'; Ladder 7 is 75'.
The ideal amount of water on an engine is at least 500 gallons; Ladder 7 holds 300 gallons.
The weight of the truck is obviously too much for the single axle design in the rear end.
From what I understand, Quint 7 will be run as an engine in its first/second due and as a ladder truck outside of that area.
The reason why I bring all this stuff up is because of what is going on in Roanoke.
Roanoke has the most aggressive Fire Department in the State! If you don't believe me look around the State. We have had fairly safe history (knock on wood); and are very blessed by having quick response times, dedicated personnel, and hard workers.
So my question is if it isn't broke then why fix it?
Several years ago, Engine 12 was taken out of service and replaced by Medic 4; the additional two positions were sent to Roanoke County at Clearbrook Station 7.
Now we lose Engine 7 to put another Medic truck in service.
Before you guys start screaming, I will admit that we need more ambulances. It seems like the City gets dumped daily and we are calling on other agencies to fill in and run calls for us. At what cost?
Think of it this way, if we are running more EMS calls then we are billing for more EMS calls and thus making more revenue for those EMS calls. Naturally, you would think that the additional revenue would be used to fund these additional medic trucks. Until I am proven otherwise, it is my understanding that the revenue from EMS billing is placed in the general fund of the City and not earmarked for Fire-EMS uses.
The additional Medic Trucks must come at a cost. That cost has become Engine/Ladder Companies. Our fleet of Medic trucks increases, our fleet of Fire Apparatus decreases. It seems as though we are on a crash course for potential disaster. Look around, most of the large incidents we have had in the past we have been able to handle with limited loss of life and property. But will the cost be greater in the future?
21 comments:
What is this "Medic 90" I've heard about? Is it another new unit or has one been renamed?
Ya know Rhett, If we get enough ambulances on scene they can each discharge their fire extinguishers and put the fire out without an engine. Who needs fire trucks.
Amen brother. No need for fire trucks, hell open up the IV fluids and put out the fires the EMS way.
medic 90 is the part time medic truck it runs from 9am to 9pm
You are right Rhett all EMS revenue goes into the City's general fund. It would be nice if we got that money think of what we could possibly do.
Even with 2 more medic trucks, the city dumped at least once today. So was it really a benefit or a lose lose.
still a benefit, but we should not have lost an Engine. we should have got our guys back from co 7
Unfortunately, the same goes for here. Money billed goes to the general fund. As I understand it, it is a legal issue and that's where the money has to go. We think the same thing you do....sure would be nice to get that money back, but I guess it doesn't work like that.
Good luck over there!
Stu Rhinehart
Nashville, TN
A firefighter has become a glorified postion now. Everybody buy their tic helmets and look pretty on the truck and get your rest because tomorrow you are in the medic truck. the apartment fire recently is evident of how our firefighting has become.
The 13th street fire was a command problem not a firefighter problem. If command would have left the firefighters alone they would have done their job.
Having lived in that house for 4 years, I am sorry to see that engine go. That 500 additional gallons of water is needed. Does anyone relize that there are 2 blocks off of Grandin and others up behind that station that have little to no water on their hydrants. Some very close to apartment buildings. Not to mention Engine 3 is further out now.
I made the comment to a fellow color gaurd member after a funeral for a retired RFD Captian, that when the Union Honor Gaurd served at our funerals we would have 2 telesquirts w/ their booms crossed and 20 medic trucks, 10 on each side lined up the drive way. I guess that future is not far off.
well the most important thing is not how many medic trucks we have but do we have what we need to do the job. I want to have what we need so everyone goes home. not a fight about medic trucks vs. fire trucks. The fact is Ladder 7 is not able to do what admin thinks it can. So do we have what we need, i think the answer is no.
The fact is that Fire Administration told City Council that they would not use the trucks in that capacity. Fire Administration lied to City Council, and lied to the citizens of the City of Roanoke. They have put the people in #7's territory in harms way. They spent alot of time "spinning" the move to make it look like they were helping the people in the Grandin Road area, but in actuality, they are screwing them. The reason that it was so easy for the city to do it was the fact that the Roanoke Fire/EMS has so many suck-ups now that they have effectively quashed any resistance from the local. The city can now do as it pleases, and the firefighters will continue to kiss up and volunteer for projects to make it better for themselves to be promoted, even if it screws everyone else in the process.
what could the local have done? We lost the station one battle. And no ones fighting the EMT-I. Are we able to stand up to the city and admin.?
Of course these must be annonymus, retaliation is rampant in our department and from downtown. We have lost benifits! We have a merit review system designed to block raises! We are continually downsized! Does that serve the citizens? Morale is at an all time low. Admin does not respect or value our personnel, our job, and certainly not experience. Promotions are wholesale, no experience required, just be a yes man. It's not like these positions may effect life and death situations. . . or do they?
and did you know some of our people have no career path?
Training is inadaquate, and it shows on the fireground and yes, on ems scenes also. Did you know we have forced ems? Is the quality of care better from someone that chose the path, or from someone that was forced? Think about it.
Their idea is to punish, pressure or run off the person that doesn't "get with the program".
yup, we value our employees, it say's so on the plaque.
Admin is terrible, backed by grigsbo, backed by the city mgr. - who represents us? certainly not any of them - and not city council. They remain "hands off" sorta? they must not know any of this or surly they would have done something about it? right?
Unfortunately it will take major loss of life for the reactive management to pretend they have any of our concerns.
Denial is a river -
oh well, guess I'll go fishing and try to not think about it.
stay safe,
blue ghost
Have your union go door to door in that run territory with fliers or post a forum meeting for those in that run territory, all this is legal if done on off time. I remember seeing you guys on every corner in every major intersection in town after 9.11 and during your MDA fund raising efforts. It was a pleasure to donate and see the brotherhood working that way. Is this not as important? (NOT to compare the 9.11 Tragedy to this situation, only as an example of the togetherness that was witnessed)It would be nice and I'll bet productive to take this issue to the street and not just sit on your ass and bitch about it. God bless each of you, and stay safe!
Its to late to go door to door,we should have done that months ago. Engine 7 is gone now! Plus if we would have gone door to door none of the firefighers would have come because of threats of moves or retaliation from our admin.Plus the union would have looked like a bunch of dumb asses cause the Union asked for the very study that called for the closing down of engine 7.Sometimes you must watch what you ask for. Is it true that WIldigg was the one asking for the study at a city council meeting?? If so what a dumb ass.
What if the study said to put 4 on each piece of apparatus? Would it be so dumb then?
You do your home work. Roanoke being a 100,000.00 population and 50 some square miles,looking at NFPA and Iso we are very engine heavy.Plus the trend across the nation is a 3 man engine and 3 man ladder ,other then very large cities that are running 4,5 even 6 per truck. I dont think being engine heavy in roanoke is a problem but give that to a study and our admin looking to cut funding,Bingo there you go. Rhett did you ever think about fighting for 4 on each piece and give up a few engines??? Or does the union still have a no compromise attitude?? And Remember the study also said to cut out engine 11.
I quote:
"Rhett did you ever think about fighting for 4 on each piece and give up a few engines??? "
Have I ever thought about it. Sure. I think that if you read the study again, it calls for it. That is what I was getting at with the prior comment.
But are quints the answer? NO
Is the Union willing to compromise? I guess you are asking that question of yourself. Unless you are one of the 2 or 3 left who aren't Union Members.
So what do you think Union Member?
As for me. I am here to support what you want.
I assure you I have heard Union members talk about compromise. As in allowing the loss of certain Units we have lost in the past for 4 person crews.
Are you willing to make a difference? That is the question you need to ask yourself.
You people amaze me, you sit comfortably in front of a computer and bash the union..YOUR union, but when they ask for help it's like pulling teeth from you people. As I said before..this is your union Rodney and Rhett are there to do what the majority votes for and request from the membership. It is the memberships duty..yes YOUR duty to attend these meetings and let your voice be heard. You can get a lot of information from these meetings if you would just get off you a$$ and atten them
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