That ain't fair, how come we don't make that much?
Have you ever been told that the reason why other firefighters get paid more is because the cost of living increase? I have. Have you ever been told that by a Chief? I have. Have you ever been told that by a Chief who makes less than a firefighter in another City? I have. I know a firefighter from a Northern Virginia fire department with 20 years of service who makes $82,000 a year. Do you realize that is more than our Acting Chief makes in a year? I learned this at the IAFF convention, while networking with other Locals from around the World. The firefighter doesn't even live in the City where he works. He lives in rural Virginia and commutes. He told us that the Captains in his City make around $117,000 a year. Doesn't that piss you off?
I usually boast our department, in this case I will have to defer. If anyone is wondering what department pays this kind of money you might want to start with a google search of the Alexandria Fire Department. Just a hunch.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not telling you to pack up your bags. I am telling you that a 20 year firefighter in Roanoke City makes around $45,000 a year. Do you really think that the $37,000 difference is due to the cost of living differential. I think not.
Let me also add that the firefighter above is not a Paramedic and does not work overtime.
See you at the next Union meeting September 5th at 7pm.
I usually boast our department, in this case I will have to defer. If anyone is wondering what department pays this kind of money you might want to start with a google search of the Alexandria Fire Department. Just a hunch.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I am not telling you to pack up your bags. I am telling you that a 20 year firefighter in Roanoke City makes around $45,000 a year. Do you really think that the $37,000 difference is due to the cost of living differential. I think not.
Let me also add that the firefighter above is not a Paramedic and does not work overtime.
See you at the next Union meeting September 5th at 7pm.
20 comments:
What you have to realize is that a house that costs $200,000 here costs $5-600,000 in Northern VA - it really does, I lived there for almost 20 years. So a FF in NOVA may make double what one does here in Roanoke, but if that FF wants a house for his family, all of his extra pay is going right into the mortgage payment.
Is there a clause that the firefighter has to live in the juridiction up there and purchase a $600,000 house? If I bought a house in the City where I would want to live, it would be in a $400,000-$500,000 house. What gives. I am not saying that the pay should be the same. The point is that the firefighter makes more than our acting Chief.
Apparently you do not find that odd. Maybe that is the problem with trying to get more money. We have to many people who are perfectly fine making inadequate wages.
Webster defines this as ignorance:
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
My point was the cost of living is higher in northern VA (you have to live over an hour away to find a reasonably priced house up there)and so the salaries are higher to cover that. It's not just FF pay. Compare what a constuction worker here makes vs. one in Northern VA, or you name just about any occupation - their pay is higher where ever the cost of living is higher. Pick a locality with paid FF's in a rural area - I'd bet their pay is lower than what it is here. In fact I saw Botetourt advertising FF positions a few weeks ago - starting salary was only $27,000 and change.
I feel like the starting salary for a FF is enough, but I do feel like those that are there 10+ years should be seeing a lot more than 3% a year, since we all know that doesn't even cover cost of living increases.
Botetourt's new paid guy wages are $27-32,000 depending on qualifications. This leaves them open to barter for better men. AND might I remind you that our pay was just $25k a few years ago and the jump in pay was hard fought and Botetourt will get there also.
Rhett is right and so are you. Our cost of living is lower, and we are under paid. The factors you have to consider with that is work load and other activities. We have a higher volume of calls compared to the 'rural' departments that you want us compared to. But because our gas is cheaper doesn't mean we should get paid less than we deserve.
Anapolis MD: A FF/EMT with 5 years experience makes $55k - they run Fire-EMS, their population is around 30,000, their call volume is 7800 a year - running 3 stations: 3 engines, 2 ladders, a BC, A rescue LT, and keeping Haz Mat, TRT, a fire boat, and investigations in the reserves much like Roanoke City. The difference? We run around 4 times as many calls, we have over 3 times the population, and the cost of living is around 10% less here. Let's see 400% more work, 300% the population to protect & serve and 10% less costs. Yeah seems fair that our guys start at $32k and in 5 years make $35k compared to $55k.
This issue isn't with Admin. or city council, it's us. We need to educate the public and have them stand up and fight for us, we need to become active and have our families and jobs protected and be our own advocates. Like Rhett has said come to the meetings, make yourself heard and known. If you like making sub-par wages then fight for lower wages and more work.
The logic asserted in the post using the Annapolis comparison does not make sense to me. Are you trying to say that departments that cover greater populations and respond to greater call volumes collectively should pay the employees higher as individuals?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. The employees working harder and putting themselves at greater risk should be granted the right to earn more.
Can you point to a department with a high call volume serving a city the size of ours or bigger that pays less than we do?
Since you asked, Oklahoma city. Population 506k (5 times ours)
52,000 (close to double) calls per year. Starting pay 25,417. After a full year of probation it goes to 33,488.
Dont get me wrong, I would like to make more as well and I think valid aurguments can be made for more pay. I'm just saying your logic doesn't work because you are using statistics derived from the whole department and applying them the individuals workload.
I also do not agree with the equation. However, I do not agree that the gap I showed in the salaries was due to CPI alone. We do not have step raises, we do not have CPI increases, and we do not have firefighters reaching top level pay. These are the issues we need to look into as well as increasing starting pay.
Comparing what FF in the Roanoke Valley make to what other workers (of all types) make - the FF here are terribly underpaid. They put up with far more bullcrap that the average Joe, yet probaby get paid half of what the average Joe gets. I live in the City and I've posted here before. I think it's incredibly sad that Roanoke City doesn't take better care of it's employees. Of course this is a city that's also shipping it's kids off to play football 45minutes from their schools too. If I felt like my voice would count I'd speak up, but unless you're someone in this City you don't count.
I agree with everything except for your last statement. This is the problem. The firefighters, just like all the other employees do not feel as though their voice counts. This is exactly what administrators want. You could not be more wrong. Your voice does count. The show of solidarity and the message that our hundreds of firefighters can make a difference. Our problem is with the common misconception which you speak of.
This is a fight we ( City FF's) can not win alone.
When we fight for our rights, we are labeled by council and The Roanoke Times as cry baby's and malcontents. We have to have support from the citizens of Roanoke. And They don't CARE!!!!!!
If they cared about the City's Firefighters they would overload the editorials telling of the problems we face, they would show up at council and question what is going on in this circus.
While I'm on a soap box i am changing the subject, If any citizens are reading this, do you know that we are being told that the department is going ahead with plans on moving the company out of Station 1# as soon as Feb 07, dispite City Council telling us less than a year ago that this would not happen.
I don't want to see Ladder #1 and the companies moved either but they never promised not to move the companies. They only promised to keep the station open. It can house reserves, medics, supplies, or whatever and the promise was made under the 'old' council. Nothing is the same as it was a few months ago.
AND I don't think the citizens overly worry about us, but I don't think they "don't care" about us. It is up to us to petition them for help, fight and scratch for help, and help our selves. When we fight for our own rights that is when people will jump on the bandwagon.
When has this ever happened?
It's not about when HAS this ever happened. It's when is it going to happen. I feel it's time that we first over load our union meetings and bring this up, and second approach the citizens as a strong union front and not as individual FF's with a stick up our yang and just looking for something to whine about.
I love how certain topics brought up on this site get so much attention and get so many people talking yet their are plenty of open seats at the union meeting where something could be done to help us w/ our problems.
Local 1132 meeting Tuesday September 5
So as a citizen of Roanoke, tell me your three biggest complaints as an employee and firefighter for the City of Roanoke? Be specific, ie: "our equipment is dated;" "the chief is a butt and doesn't listen" isn't very helpful to those of us who are reading this and would like to help you. I'll be more than glad to write Burcham, Council, the Mayor or whoever, but I've got to have something to go on other than I've been reading Lt Fleitz blog and blah blah blah... In fact, I'd rather leave his name out so he doesn't face "retaliation" etc.
We are under paid!!!!! WE are the largest Department west of Richmond and our pay is behind many of the other medium sized departments in the state.
We work in fear of our Administration. Read this blog and the news paper to see that retaliation exists.
Our turn over is so bad that we can not get any extra time off to go to school and family events. It is common practice to run with minimum staffing on our trucks. It's like playing with a hot potato, sooner or later someone will get burned. In Nov we will get 17 new recruits and already be 7 people short again.
We loose 20 people per year and DT refuses to admit it is because of our working environment.
Need more?
Sometimes companies are out of sevice for extended periods of time because of sortage of manpower admin. don'e want to won't pay for overtime.
At the next union meeting, we need to direct the union officers, a committee, or whatever to come up with a plan that can be used to enhance our benefits.
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